Burnlounge = Ponzi Scheme?

For those not up to speed on this, Burnlounge is a "network marketing" (read: multi-level marketing) online music store, similar to iTunes...except that iTunes actually works.

Somebody first approached me about getting involved in this company in November.  Since then, I've had at least five or six people ask me to get involved, one of whom was willing to pay all my fees.  I've also seen the Burnlounge "magazine" in the gym, seen ads in local music publications, and gotten plenty of emails about them.

This company has found a winner in the Nashville music scene.  Is it a good investment though?

Tony Zeoli has some good information on Burnlounge that anybody considering the program should read.

I attended a similar event a few weeks ago...

When I asked about how the music was being licensed, I was told it was "direcly via major labels."  Wrong.  Glad to see this has come out into the open.

I almost asked about a company called Janglefish, which was very similar and went out of business, but thought, "There is no way this is the same company under a different name."  Wrong.

What disturbed me most about this company is that nobody seemed to care that the site didn't work.  "We're concentrating on building the network now" was the answer to that issue.

I'm a marketing guy.  I love the game of convincing people to open up their wallets, take out the cash, and hand it to me.  Part of that is handing over something in return though and it seems to me that the only reason Burnlounge has a "store" at all is to keep them from being classified as a Ponzi Scheme.

Music is made to be portable.  It's what we listen to while doing other things...

iPod has 80% of the portable music hardware market.  iPod doesn't play Windows Media Player, which is what Burnlounge uses.

Isn't this like opening up a record club that only sends music on 8-Track?  Sure, you can get it, but you won't be able to play it.

Somebody asked about this and the recommendation was, "Burn your download to CD and encode it to mp3."

Ok, on iTunes, I just download it and it goes to my iPod automatically.

With Burnlounge, I'd have to...

1. Download the file.
2. Burn a CD.
3. Encode the CD to mp3.
4. Transfer to my iPod.

Who the hell is going to do that?

My advice... Stay away.  This is a "moneymaker" (for some people), not a real business.  You're much better off investing your time, money, and effort into something YOU are doing.

Comments

[Tony Zeoli]

Saw your article. Glad you found out the underlying truth about Burnlounge.

Tony Zeoli

[Frederick]

Ok answer this....

1. Who makes money with I tunes? They do
2. Who makes money in Burnlounge? You do
3. 99% of all music downloads take place on a PC not an I-pod. 90% of all computers are not Macintosh. Duh...maybe people are downloading windows files for a reason?
4. Aren't you sick of the monopoly? At least with 8-tracks anyone could play it without having to put money in Steve Jobs pocket.
5. I-tunes was in beta testing for 5 years and not functional. Burnlounge is not even out of beta yet and had 100,000 successful downloads last week.
6. Building a fan base for the independent artist and allowing ANYONE to upload their music after a liscensing agreement is what I call democracy in action.
7. Let's not go from one stranglehold to the next so quickly. There is no difference between the major labels and I tunes.
8. Let the people decide. Let the people make money instead of only the rich. Let Burnlounge roll out and wish them well.

[David Hooper]

iTunes is now counting down to its 1,000,000,000th sale. Somebody is using it and it's not just Mac users.

Look at file sharing services to see what people want. Mp3 is the audio format of choice...not Window's Media Player.

There are plenty of independent artists on iTunes. CD Baby has paid over $3,000,000 to independent artists for songs sold via iTunes.

[Tom Steele]

Frederick,

What a load of crap. Let's pick that apart one by one, shall we?

1. Who makes money with I tunes? They do

No, itunes makes some of the money, the label makes a lot of the money, and also the artist and publishing.

2. Who makes money in Burnlounge? You do

No, you make a nickel per download, othewise it is the same as itunes, except insert Burnlounge where itunes was before. IOW, Burnlounge makes some of the money, the lablel makes a lot of the money, loudeye makes some of the money and the artist and publishing.

3. 99% of all music downloads take place on a PC not an I-pod. 90% of all computers are not Macintosh. Duh...maybe people are downloading windows files for a reason?

I'm not sure where you got this info. I don't know what percentage of itunes songs end up on CD, PC, MAC or iPod. I download from itunes and burn em to cd.

4. Aren't you sick of the monopoly? At least with 8-tracks anyone could play it without having to put money in Steve Jobs pocket.

No, I really don't give the first squat who gets the money. I just care where I can get it legally the cheapest and easiest, not necessarily in that order. You see, I'm not a "bring down the man" hippie. What is particularly funny is that you are using this as a sales pitch, when in reality, the burn lounge retailers are getting a nickel a song and the only people getting rich in burnlounge are the principals. New boss is same as the old boss. And you're buying into the sales pitch.

5. I-tunes was in beta testing for 5 years and not functional. Burnlounge is not even out of beta yet and had 100,000 successful downloads last week.

So? How many of those are from moguls making sure they get their 2 albums to activate? Brunlounge encourages cannibalistic sales (i.e. selling to yourself) in order to meet minimum quotas. That will only last so long before people bail.

6. Building a fan base for the independent artist and allowing ANYONE to upload their music after a liscensing agreement is what I call democracy in action.

That is the good part of burnlounge.

7. Let's not go from one stranglehold to the next so quickly. There is no difference between the major labels and I tunes.

Yeah, but there is only a slight difference between burnlounge and itunes. A nickel for the "seller" and better terms for UNSIGNED artists. I assume the terms for signed artists are via their deal with the labels.

8. Let the people decide. Let the people make money instead of only the rich. Let Burnlounge roll out and wish them well.

More hogwash. Let the people make the money instead of only the rich. So first off, the rich aren't people in your world. Second, at a nickel a pop you're going to be a "not rich, but a person" for a long time. Pure emotional hype. Show me how you're going to get rich selling music on Burnlounge?

-Tom Steele

[D]

Tom and Tony,
The simple fact is people are making money. I can attest as I am making money. If its an extra $300 a month to an extra $10,000 a month I am better off as I have leveraged my $145 and will have turned a profit any way you look at it. Thats better than the stock market. Its okay if you don't understand or agree with the business model. Time and other businesses set up this way have proved it works. Either you jump on the bandwagon if you believe you have a chance to make some money or you don't. And either way, you cannot complain about the system until you are in it and then want to get out. I have yet to see that happen as the monthly charges haven't even happened yet. (A perk of being in "beta" phase.) And to make things clear, you cannot activate your store buy purchasing 2 CDs from yourself. These 2 CD's need to be purchased by someone not in burnlounge (ie bringing in the community and your closest friends and family around you) This would be the myspace vs. itunes affect. So for all those who you may deem naive...my bank account is saying thank you.

[Johnny B]

Yo D......well put. I dont have ties with Burn Lounge, just enjoying the rants. It sounds like the cons are a carring torches and pitchforks for some reason and they have no investments .........interesting.

[BARB]

If the negative posts were coming from Burnlounge retailers who had been hurt by an unsound or unscrupulous business plan then it would be relevant. Who in burnlounge has a negative thing to say? No one, since we are experiencing and witnessing the birth of a very cool company that has timed its launch with the wave of inevitable things to come. We are not hippies trying to bring down the MAN. We are the average JOES getting our piece of a very sweet pie. We ARE making money and it is way more than a nickel. So what if it was attempted and failed once before. Timing. Remember that BABE RUTH struck out plenty before bringing it home.
Your loss, Tony. Maybe you should take another look at what we've been given here.

[David Hooper]

Barb, also keep in mind that people "in Burnlounge" are on the payroll and benefit by spreading good news about the company. Obviously, you won't knock your own company, but folks need to take whatever is posted by company people with a grain of salt.

[pman]

I'd like to add a comment or two here. First, the author of this blog is understandably skeptical. Many sleezy "snake oils" are pushed using MLM methods. However, from a marketing perspective, this model is really the best way for company to take a legimate share of the space that iTunes has done so well in. You certainly aren't going to take down Apple's 800lb Gorilla by trying to outspend them on advertising. You'll die trying. Napster and other legal download sites definitely aren't setting the woods on fire.

Tony Zeoli is making much ado about nothing, and is spreading misinformation about the compensation program. His piece is definitely NOT "good information on Burnlounge" as is mentioned above. I quote Tony: "Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, BurnLounge.com’s start-up fee is $144.00 or so, plus a montly subscription fee of around $12. So you’ve got to sell a lot of downloads to make up that estimated $360 for the year, before you even can think about turning a profit." If all you want to do is sell music, and not set up other retailers (remember folks, it's all about getting other points of presence out there, ask any retailer), then you certainly wouldn't sign up for that particular package. There is an affiliate package that is roughly 96.00 per year for those that only want to sell music. Additionally, you make profits off of other stores under you, so you can legitimately make a nice income off of selling music.

The key is understanding the concept. If MLM makes you nervous, then don't do it! No one is forcing you to join. However, if you want to bash the program, be sure to have your facts straight before you go about doing it. I think Tony is more interested in the hits his opinion article is generating for his site right now.

Rant over.

[Bob]

So is this worth even doing as a unsigned act? B.L says that it's free to be put into the catalog.... This is the only place that I've come to without a pro B.L sales pitch.

[Intelligent Guest]

D,

Are you making money selling music, or recruiting people? Because that's the whole point. YES you can make money selling recruitments. We acknowledge that. That is what a PONZI scheme is all about. The question is: "Can you make money selling MUSIC (the product)?" I believe the answer to that is NO. Burnlounge looks to be a pyramid scam that uses downloadable music as its "we're legal" hook.

Here's the $100,000.00 question. Can you tell me what the compensation plan is for music sales? Betcha can't. I bet that you have signed up and are preaching to everyone about how great this program is, and just like all the others, you have NO IDEA how the compensation program works when it comes to selling music.

You know how I know that? Because I've seen the "compensation plan" and I can't find the part where they tell you how much you will ACTUALLY make from your downline selling music. It talks a lot about "commisionable sales" and "commisionable profits" but it doesn't give you any hard numbers. 5% of a "commissionable profit" isn't usable information unless you are told what the commissionable profit is beforehand. You aren't...

I also thought this was an interesting part of the plan:

"Cap Calculation

In order to protect the company and ensure that the company never pays out more than it can
afford to pay, a “cap” is instituted. When Music Mogul Bonus are calculated for each rewards
period, if the new payment will cause the company to pay out more than the desired percentage,
the amount of BurnRewards awarded is adjusted."

Here are your red flags for those of you who have never been in a contract negotiation.

"Desired percentage" is a HUGE red flag. Why? Because you don't know what the desired percentage is upfront.

Second red flag: "the amount of BurnRewards is adjusted." Adjusted HOW?

A REAL company would know what their operating costs were upfront. They would be able to tell you, IN TERMS OF GROSS SALES, what your percentages would be. A REAL BUSINESS PLAN would allow you to forecast YOUR INCOME based on your sales ahead of time.

If you are making money right now, you are doing it through sales of RECRUITMENT, NOT MUSIC. That is the DEFINITION of a Ponzi scheme.

[wes]

the news blog i write for has been hammered with spam from this. somehow we got in the top 5 google results for a burnlounge search and the post about the service has over 100 hits now. they are really infuriating some of our readers.

[Burnlounger]

Personally speaking.. seems that alot of the "naysayers" are trying to drum up drama, so that they can accumulate more page views/hits, and in turn, try to sell their wares.. like this particular site trying to do Google Adwords and sell that "Music Promotion Package" up there on the top right banner! LOL.

[David Hooper]

Just like a lot of people are trying to get people to sign up for their Burnlounge downline...

Whether people sign up for Burnlounge or now doesn't affect me one way or another, but I think the readers of my blog deserve to know the truth behind its business model before getting involved.

[Danielle]

WOW!! People spend a lot of time being negative huh? As the saying goes, "People fear what they don't understand".

Few questions: If Burnlounge is full of crap, why does Burnlounge have the major record labels on board (Universal/Warner/EMI/BMG/Sony) and their catalogs? Why has Metallica, who took down Napster, decided to release their music on Burnlounge? If there were any legal flaw, I'm pretty sure they've done all the research to find it. Why would Rick Dees, famous radio host of "Weekly Top 40" be one of the major partners and investors in the company? As well as Carson Daly, MTV, be a founding advisor? Yep, I'm pretty sure they're lending their name to a "scam"! Billboard and Fortune Magazine wrote aritcles on Burnlounge and most recently the CEO, Alex Arnold was invited by Harvard University to speak. Does that happen to companies that are not legit?

"People who say it can't be done, shouldn't get in the way of people who are doing it". -unknown

Of course there will be good and bad arguments to everything. But if Burnlounge isn't for you, cool, no one is begging you to be part of it! Please continue to spend your time being negative, I hear it brings great fulfillment!! Blessings :)

[David Hooper]

Metallica was part of the catalog of music which Burnlouge licensed. Just because their music is there doesn't mean they've heard of the site or endorse it.

I don't think anybody has said the company isn't legitimate. They're just saying it's not a good investment. Enron and MCI have had major coverage also.

[AJ Short]

Suggest anyone who's interested go look at Ted Nugent's site and comments about Burn Lounge - AJS

[Arthur]

Danielle, boy are you brain-washed. Here is the answer to everyone of your questions.

If Burnlounge is full of crap, why does Burnlounge have the major record labels on board (Universal/Warner/EMI/BMG/Sony) and their catalogs? Why has Metallica, who took down Napster, decided to release their music on Burnlounge?

None of those major labels or artists explicitly agreed to license their music directly to Burnlounge. They licensed it to Loudeye, who is a middle-man to burnlounge and several other digital media companies. These artists/lables could probably care less who Loudeye ends up re-selling to as long as they are making money.

Why would Rick Dees, famous radio host of "Weekly Top 40" be one of the major partners and investors in the company? As well as Carson Daly, MTV, be a founding advisor?

Because they are getting in at the top and will make tons of money from it and the creator of the business model was clever enough to keep this legal. Many unethical things aren't against the law, it's all a matter of how far you are willing to stretch your personal ethics to make a buck.

Alex Arnold was invited by Harvard University to speak. Does that happen to companies that are not legit?

No one is saying the company isn't "legit", we are saying it's unethical. Fact is almost every MLM out there ends up losing money for 90% of the employees. EXCEL communications, the communications MLM that Arnold is best know for had distributor turnover rate of 86% in the 90s. Try to find out what % of distributors actaully made money with this. I bet you it aint much more than 10-20%

The few MLMs that are successful for a majority, like pampered chef, are successful because they have a high margin (25%) built in to the business model that goes directly to the seller. The margin here is 5%, there is no way a majority of people are going to turn a profit with that kind of margin. The business model here is fundamentally flawed. Throw in the fact that most other digital retailers are still operating in the red and even iTunes has very modest profits and there are some fundamental market problems out there as well.

That means that your only money making opportunity here is the selling of distributorships, which if were conducted as it's own business would ABSOLUTELY be a pyramid scheme and illegal. That is the point here that no one seems to get.

[harvard]

FYI - the conference at Harvard was sponsored by an HBS student club, not the University. Arnold was a Panelist, not a speaker, and was one of many. The HBS club on religion also hosts speakers from every cult group/religion imaginable - that doesn't mean Harvard Business School endorses those ideas or the speakers.

Fortune small business writes articles every week about companies you'll never hear of again. Grab a Fortune from '98 - see how many of the tech boom companies are around.

[Hawk]

For those of you who are bashing BurnLounge, you simply do not know what you are talking about. Allow me explain: As I've read here, the primary "riff" surrounding BurnLounge appears to be that most folks realize it's legal - but think it's unethical. In order to achieve legal status, BurnLounge is using a thinly veiled business opportunity (selling digital music via your own personal web-store) as a means to legitimize the operation. Doubters will say "how much money can one make downloading $.99 songs?", "profit margins are too small", "everyone is making money selling stores - not music", etc., etc.

First of all, BurnLounge was not created to only sell $.99 songs of major artists to compete head to head vs. iTunes & Napster. If that was the plan, they would clearly be offering a business proposal that would make no sense. I would agree that the profit margins on $.99 major label songs isn't much when the artist, label, LoudEye, etc., take a cut. The BurnLounge retailer would be earning 5% of $.02 or less? One would have to be selling millions of songs to earn any real income.

But that is NOT THE PALN. Here are some things for the BurnLounge doubters to chew on:

- BurnLounge, fudamentally, was designed to be "a marketplace for music". A marketplace where independent artists that currently have no label or backing could gain distribution of their original music. If the music is good, the word will spread in the same manner that folks communicate on Myspace.com, etc. The fans of these off-label bands will start these movements and the profit margins for this music will be much greater for (1) the artist and (2) the BurnLounge retailer. BurnLounge Retailers that like this unique music will be marketing it to their sphere of customers via playlists, e-mail, IMs, etc. You could, potentially, have an artist go Platinum on BurnLounge without a major label. Think about that for a minute?

- BurnLounge, eventually, will be a fully functional digital web-store for not only music, but movies, games, ringtones, podcasts, ebooks, you name it. Music is just the beginning. The profit margins on many of these items will be better for the retailers. Furthermore, BurnLounge isn't tyring to sell mor U2, Brittany Spears, etc. They are trying to promote NEW ACTS with better margins. The existing major lable content is, in essence, a "loss leader".

- BurnLounge is also going to be selling multiple types of MP3 players. More profit margins for retailers.

- Today, there are ~ 20,000 Independent BurnLounge Retailers. In five years, when BurnLounge is in countries such as Japan, China, Canada, etc., there could be millions of retailers. Now think for a minute how much leverage a company like BurnLounge might have with digital content carriers when they can provide immediate distribution to say 5-7M online web-stores? Each webstore will have a customer base ranging from 1 to 100? 200? 2,000? It all depends on who owns the webstore and how agressivly they are marketing their site.

The name of the game for BurnLounge today is building distribution. When you have distribution, you have leverage in the music and entertainment business.

So for those of you who still think BurnLounge is a "scheme" - that's fine. Just quit making blanket statements that demonstrate not how much you know about BurnLounge - but how little you know about BurnLounge.

[Andy]

During the past few weeks I've been approached by more than a few clients regarding the BurnLounge site. Then a friend of the family asked me to look into this business and let them know what I thought. I even went in to listen to her boss give a sales pitch to me. I kept asking him how it wasn't really a pyramid scheme as it focused on making him money by making me a Mogul (with the 'university package'). He couldn't give an answer.

BurnLounge is focused entirely on making money from recruiting distributors. If you were focused on making money by selling music, that would be different. Definitely a scam, and no, I sincerely doubt anyone with a Mogul account is going to admit to that because it's in their best interest to promote their so-called business (of recruiting more distributors).

I considered BurnLounge only in the sense that I might sell this to other musicians. That would be a valuable service, if those musicians were able to upload their art and music to a wide audience with little hassle. I believe that's not currently the case. Second to that, of course, would be selling the music. But you'd have to sell roughly 3,000 songs per month to break even - not considering other fees associated, and taxes. When you're encouraging your friends (ie, you're 'network') to become 'music mogules' how do you suppose you're going to all sell 3,000 songs per month or more?

When you read what other folks have to say about BurnLounge, you can pretty much group them into two categories: Folks who are pointing out the obvious, and folks who are trying to sell you on becoming a distributor. Check the URL they are promoting.

Also, consider the massive fees BurnLounge is going to have to pay for bandwidth, maintenance, programming, legal fees, etc. You're looking at a minimum of $500/mo per server from Rackspace, and that only gives you like 20GB/mo traffic. They'll have to add quite a few servers and will use up quite a bit of bandwidth when they go 'public'. Those costs add up quite a bit, and that's also why iTunes just breaks even. They make money off the iPods, not the iTunes (but someday they will make money directly from iTunes).

Also, I read through BurnLounge's agreement/contract. They basically state that you can't advertise your so-called store in any other way than they spell out. I've seen lots of advertisements on myspace, but they don't really conform to what I've seen on BurnLounge's agreement. The only thing you're really selling is mogul packages, not music.

Ugh, it's a stupid pyramid scheme. Don't act now, supplies aren't limited, experts don't agree, it won't change your life, it's not easy, it's not fast, it's not incredible, it's not once in a lifetime: It's a great scam to sucker suckers into suckering other suckers. -sucksucksucksucksucksucksuck- :)

[Allen-Mogul]

Let cooler heads and reason prevail. I'm a real estate agent. 90% of all agents bail out within the 1st 18 months because of simple failure to produce. Does this make the real estate industry unethical?
No, it is a simple testament to human nature. In all cases involving sales, 80% of the business is produced by 20% of the sales force. This is because once most people realize that time, money and hard work is required to build a truly successful business, they become part of the failure stats. As for the comments about not getting rich at a nickel per song, Nashville and LA are lined with mansions purchased by artists/writers who made a nickel per song sold. My Dad always told me when I was a kid, "Allen, anything times a million is a lot of money". One last comment...Most DVD players that I've owned support Windows Media files and I have never had to convert them to MP3. I just download and burn. Remember everyone, "whether you believe you can or believe you can't, either way you are right".

[Allen-Mogul]

MLMs are made up of three kinds of people....
1. Those who simply do not understand what it takes to make an MLM work for THEM, therefore, they are no help or inspiration to the handful of people they bring into their fold. They, and usually their entire downline, washout.

2. Similar to group 1, there are those who simply do not understand what it takes to make an MLM work for THEM, therefore, they are no help or inspiration to the handful of people they bring into their fold. They, and usually their entire downline, washout. They then go around saying how they were ripped off (and the downline actually was cheated, but by their unsupportive sponsor).

3. Group three, a small percentage, understand how to make the MLM work for them and they simply go out and make it happen and are not influenced by friends and family who tell them that they'll never make any money at it. They inspire and motivate the members of their downline to work as hard as they do. True determination is a rare quality and those who possess it, will be successful, even if only after some failures. As for the Pyramid argument, everyone is at the top of THEIR pyramid. I guess that makes all of us the villian.

[Allen-Mogul]

Compensation Plan:
I don't understand the confusion surrounding the compensation for song/album sells. It's very simple, at least in the 1st 2 levels (rings). You make a minumum of 5 cents on each song purchased from your site. You make a minimum of 2 cents off of each song purchased by a level 1 (someone you personally sponsored)site. We say "minimum", because if 20% of the profit margin on the sales from your site (or 12% for a 1st level site) is greater than the 5 cents per track or 2 cents per track sold, you get the profit margin percentage instead. The next 4 rings are based purely on 5% of the profit margin with ring 6 going back up to 8%. The mere fact that minimum sales requirements are part of the plan, makes the "it's all about recruiting" argument null and void. They want you to sell music because that's our business.

[Arthur]

Wow, ignorance running rampant in this blog. Let's address these comments one at a time.

Hawk, I fully understand everything about Burnlounge, nothing in your post was new information to me. My comments do not demonstrate any lack of understanding at all, show me one thing I have stated that is incorrect. It is a FACT that Burnlounge is both a legitimate business (online store) and a pyramid scheme (mogul/university) rolled into one. Try to dispute the fact that the mogul/universite plan is not a pyramid scheme if it were run by itself. You can't.

You may be right about the money making opportunities within the store itself, but if that is the case why are they focused on the mogul part, which by definition is FACTUALLY unsustainable and cannablizes the market by opening as many stores as possible?

Allen-mogul, about the most ridiculous arguments I have heard yet. Real Estate agents do not have a business model where unsustainable recruiting and kickbacks running up 6 levels of a pyramid are involved. And musicians get rich at a nickle a song because ALL THE NICKELS FOR THE SONG ARE GOING TO THEM AND NOT DIVIDED BETWEEN 200,000 (or however many stores they are planning on) PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE THOSE NICKELS SELLING THE SONG. That argument was so stupid I laughed out loud for 2 minutes. You guys are so brainwashed it is funny.

Your "believe you can" statement is just MLM hog-wash. So If I belive that the mogul model is sustainable forever and there will always be more people to open stores, that means it will happen? AMAZING!

Your characterization of group 3 is way off. First of all, I would never not tell you that you won't make money with this, you probably will. This group 3 of people are those who choose to fill their heads with the rah-rah MLM BS and put their personal ethics aside knowing that the distributorship model, BY DEFINITION, is unsustainable and eventually people will get hosed on it. But they choose to do it anyway because money is more important to them than acknowledging that.

Burnlounge is a very good idea from the aspect of the personal digital online store. Why they choose to wrap they pyramid scheme into the business model is just beyond comprehension.

[Not sure I want to participate]

I can't understand why everyone doesn't get into Burnlounge. Wait....I guess it's not a sure thing. Are there any odds out there that anyone has? I like to gamble. But I like good odds. A friend of mine has recently exposed me to burnlounge and I am considering it. I am not convinced that my odds are very good. I like to gamble, really, I do. But I also want to maximize my potential winnings. I guess a $450 will allow me the opportunity to "win" $150. Hmmmm not a very good bet. But.., if my sponsors get people involved, I can make "more" money. How much is that? I don't know. But there is someone out there making $81,000 since September... Really!?? Wow, but why doesn't everyone do it? Better yet, How can I meet this person? Never seem to get together for a conference call. I guess I am typing this out to get my brain straight.
Burnlounge:
1. It's a gaurantee! But everyone doesn't do it.
2. I'll make lot's of money, But not really sure how much because it's not clearly defined
3. I am selling thin air! Wow that's 100% profit!
4. I just need to convince people I know to cough up $450. Who needs a Website to sell music!
5. This is Legal! I love America. WTF

[Michael]

Andy, you seem like a bitter guy. What qualifies you as the final word on what is or what is not a scheme? It will not work, they only focus on selling distribution. Blah, blah, blah. All the negative comments are true if there is not distribution. Nothing EVER gets sold without distribution. Paying for that distribution is nothing new. I have over 15 years experience selling in the media industry. Guess what, when I sold ESPN we PAID cable operators to launch the channel. Want to know why? Because without the DISTRIBUTION, you can't sell an ad. Furthermore, I was highly compensated for each deal that I did. Want to know more? Those same cable ops take a few bucks from every subscriber they have and pay each network they carry a portion of it each month.

Will BurnLounge work? Hell, I don't know and I anyone that says it 100% will or it will not is full of crap. I do know this though....Ted Turner was called a fool for CNN. I was told over and over again that consumers would not want espn2. You don't know anything about their business model. I sure as hell bet those bankers that gave up the 20 million in seed capital know enough.

All you other brilliant business guys tell me why FOX paid 650 million to myspace? Sure was not for the ad revenue. My favorite post is the bozo who went off on server costs.

Now that I am on a rant, let me also tell you all that EVERYTHING is going digital. Apple has a strong market share no doubt about it. I guess that means we should just all go home and let them have everything. Market share....Oh, that same market share that CBS, NBC and ABC had when cable started.

I don't give a damn who gets in BL but what I do care about are all of you up on your collective high horses preaching about what you took all of 20 minutes to investigate.

[Allen-Mogul]

Arthur:
1st of all, anyone who knows me knows that I am a serious business man, not a rah-rah preacher of pies in the sky. As for the quotes I gave you that you mocked as MLM rah-rah brainwashing lines, I attempted to offer the readers of this blog some inspiring words of wisdom that have substained me thru many challenges in my life, not just business. Whether you are trying to quit smoking, drinking, or trying to struggle thru a tough course in college, I still stand by what I said.."whether you believe you can or believe you can't, either way you are right". Unsubstainable? Keller Williams Realty (I happen to be with Remax) is built on the MLM model and they are one of the most successful and fastest growing real estate companies in the Southeast, if not the country. Your attempt to be insulting doesn't bother me in the least. I am successful and respected by friends, family and business associates. This respect was earned. I would never offer an "opportunity" to someone who I didn't think had the resources and the understanding to make it flourish. Real business people know that there are no guarantees in the best of circumstances. We don't always win. A particular MLM can be viewed like any other investment. There is a time to get in and maybe a time to get out. It would serve you well to do a little more listening and a little less attempting to convince the others that you are the smartest guy in the room.

[Hawk]

Arthur,

You are absolutely right - if there we no online digital store selling music, BurnLounge WOULD be a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes, ponzi schemes, etc., are organizations based on having NO PRODUCT to offer in the direct sales process. That, however, is not BurnLounge.

BurnLounge is a concept that is 100% opposite iTunes, Napster, etc. With iTunes you have one store, millions spent on marketing, and a huge customer base. With BurnLounge, you'll have millions of stores with a wide range of customer bases (& no advertising). BurnLounge stores will likely have customer bases that range from 2-7 in a family w/ a few friends - to the 1,000s on more visible sites (Hootie & the Blowfish / Ted Nugent, other new bands, etc.)

You also asked "why so much emphasis on the Mogul & University" plans. It's simple: the Mogul package is designed for folks who want to help BurnLounge grow fast (build teams that build teams). Lots of teams = DISTRIBUTION. Distribution = leverage and potentially exclusive digital content. That is why Mogul is the way to go if you want to make serious money. If you're only interested in selling music, you should join as an Affiliate for $29 a year & $6.95 per month.

Finally: "Why the University DVDs". It's simple and I am living proof that what I know today about BurnLounge began with the DVDs. 80% + of the people in BurnLounge are from outside the music industry. Therefore, how else are they supposed to get trained on the market, landscape, etc.? BurnLounge recognizes that its' business will grow a lot faster if people are educated about the business. It makes sense and I didn't "get it" until I watched the DVDs.

[Steve]

I went to the Burnlounge meeting last night here in Dallas. Some things worried me. The speaker said that they had 700-1000 people at meetings in other cities. Last night there were only about 125 people. They name dropped like nobody's business. They didn't go over any numbers or specifics on how much you could make. You can only go 6 deep on how many people you can get to join. You get no discount on downloads. Kind of in limbo here on what is going on.

[TheHawk]

Most of you who believe in the burn longe miracle money-makng opportunities probably believe in Creationism, life after death and the sincerity of George W. Bush and his oil cronies.

[Intelligent Guest]

Allen Mogul,

You wrote that you didn't understand how anyone could be confused about the burnlounge compensation plan. Then you explained it without giving any actual numbers. Do YOU understand it?

You started off by saying that it is very simple in the first two rings. For the most part that is true. You are "pretty sure" that burnlounge is going to give you a nickel for each song you sell, and 2 cents for each song your immediate team sells.

Have you done the math on that? Just to break even on your yearly mogul costs, you would have to sell something on the order of 5,000-10,000 songs per month between you and your direct teams.

So, the profit in Burnlounge must come from the next four rings - right? Except, as you even admit, you have NO EARTHLY IDEA what you will be paid on sales from your level 2-5 teams. That's the confusion. The very area in which theoretically you could make some money as your pyramid starts to get a fat base, is completely up in the air because burnlounge doesn't tell you what they are going to pay on those levels. They claim 5% of the "commisionable profit."

Furthermore, they have a clause in the plan that says, "In order to protect the company and ensure that the company never pays out more than it can afford to pay, a “cap” is instituted. When Music Mogul Bonus are calculated for each rewards period, if the new payment will cause the company to pay out more than the desired percentage, the amount of BurnRewards awarded is adjusted."

In other words, if they start to split that 99 cents too fine, they can reduce (assumably to zero if they want) the payout to you in order to maintain their income levels.

Now please, tell us again how this is simple?

-IG

[boss]

Remember the most important thing here. BurnLounge is legalizing the sale of music. Hopefully this puts an end to all the illegal file sharing going on. We the fans of music can either choose to use BurnLounge as a place and get our music or use it as a business. It's just like buying a franchise. We pay a price for the franchise, pay royalities each month and have an opportunity to make money of the sale of products through our store. Plan and simple. Nothing illegial. I have expenses through BurnLounge and you have income. If I want to be just a customer (paying no fees) and treat this as a hobby, I can. Competition is what US is about. This is another business that sells music. Its free enterprise.

[Intelligent Guest]

Burnlounge is legalizing the sale of music? iTunes is illegal? Walmart.com is illegal? I'm not sure I follow you here.

The POINT is whether or not burnlounge is a legitimate business enterprise. How can they make a profit off of 99cent song sales, when iTunes just started to turn a profit, and iTunes doesn't have to pay out 7+ cents on the dollar to MLM expenses? If burnlounge isn't making a profit on song sales, then they are financing the losses with recruitment, which is the basis of most pyramid schemes.

-IG
http://burnlounge.proboards92.com/index.cgi

[FRANK]

You guys should look into Burnlounge. I already made over a grand. And I have not sold 1 song!! Who cares if you only make a nickel a song. It is the points of sales that you can develop. If you develop 10,000 points of sale, and make $2 dolllars on each store. How much did you just make?
A guy pesonally invited 15 people to open their own retail store. It snowballed to 7,000 in 6 mos. Just by word of mouth. He has made over 120,000 dollars. How is that possible?
You sponsor a store you get paid. That person sponsors a store you get paid, everyone sells music and everyone gets paid! The funny thing is that you dont even know who is signing on to your team. I signed up 10 people and I already have 50 in 4 weeks. that tells you that it has peoples attention. The launch party is in Vegas on June 9-10. Brought to you by Cadillac and Warner Pictures. I am sure they have some credibility.
Check it out for youselves before some idiot tells you that just because it is Direct Sales it's Bad.
Amway is MLN and has made more millionaires than any other Company that I know of. Around 30,000 to exact. Just remember they sell household
goods.
Warren Buffet is a billionaire and he owns Pampered Chef. That is also MLN! Why because it works!
We sell what everybody wants...Music.
This is network marketing without the levels and supervision. After a few months this takes on a life of it own. If you want to recieve an email with all the compensation videos and Reviews.
email me@ franksmail_99@yahoo.com. This also includes the interview with Rick Dees who is One Third Owner. By the way Carson Daily from MTV is the 2nd Largest Investor in the Company. Good Day

[Intelligent Guest]

I think Frank has made the case for the pyramid scam quite well! Wow. Thanks for saving us the work... ?!?!?

-IG

[FRANK]

Got to the Hootie and the Blowfish website. See their online store posted right there for the world to see. My goodness. It's Burnlounge! I met American Idol Star Justin and he is really excited about having his music sold on Burnlounge. People are selling fully functional and customizable online stores. You can advertise your store like any other business. I never heard of a business that cost a dime to start up.
I know IG always has something negative to say. What is it this time Mr. Executioner?

[Chris]

There are always going to be people with different opinions on everything. The ones with all the negativity seem to feed off of it mentally and emotionally. They will never be a success in any business. Burnlounge does'nt need or want these people.

[Geoff]

Thanks for the lunch break humor.... Isn't it fun to express your opinion?

I wondered though, of all the people who are writing negative thoughts on Burnlounge, how many of you make $100,000 a year or more in your current job. Understand that I am not suggesting you will make that with Burnlounge. I am simply stating that you are where you are financially because you only see negative in taking a risk.. I'll bet your stock portfolio is made up of Blue Chip only.

I on the other hand am not the one sitting in front of my computer hating my job or wishing I had more money to pay for gas. I am having a lot of fun with Burnlounge. I also invest money in blue chip stocks to keep some security, but I like to take a risk every now and then.

Now, I have only been involved with Burnlounge for a few months, but I have more than doubled my investment and had a lot of fun doing it. Next weekend I am having a party with a live local band that we are helping market their music online. How many of you are helping your friends make money?

Not that you care, but you know what is really cool about network marketing? I have talked to my brother probably 10 times in the last 10 years; since both of us got involved in Burnlounge we talk two or three times a week! Same story with my neighbor. It's a nice side effect of relationship marketing.

To address the income side of Burnlounge, I don't know if I will ever get rich from Burnlounge, but for $445 I figure at least I won't be the guy 10 years from now telling a similar story as the guy who "could have" invested with Bill Gates, but didn't think it would work.

Last note.... How many successful entrepeneurs have you ever read about that didn't challenge the "status quo"? If you ever want to make a huge difference in your life, you have to get outside the box. Whether it is with Burnlounge, another business idea, or an invention of your own. Life is too short to not have a little fun playing outside the box. Who knows? You might just have fun too...

[Shawn]

Whoever is making negative comments need to stop. Why,because you are interfering with someone elses dreams! Network Marketing is here to stay and as you can see the society is becoming more and more interested direct marketing companies Like Burn Lounge,Quixtar,and other cool companies. More people are accepting MLM and more will in the future.

[TbFilly]

Anyone unsure of where Burnlounge is going has not done their research. Yes, mlm, yes competion for i-tunes, so whats wrong with that.
As far as ipods not being able to play the music, WRONG, they are going to have an adapter for the Burnlounge music, developed by Apple.
Bill Gates wants in with this piece of pie so nobody is going to tell me he's not developing his own version of the ipod that will play everything.
I'm with Shawn, please don't squash peoples dreams
http://www.burnlounge.com/fillysmusic

[matt-mogul]

TbFilly,
Where did you hear about an iPod adapter being developed by Apple for Burnlounge? I have not heard this elsewhere.
-Matt

[Todd]

I joined Burn Lounge in January and have already made my money back. I joined because successful Multi-Level Marketing companies need to have a good product at the right time. This product is MUSIC! Everyone wants music. I have a digital web store just like the corner music store of old. The difference is I will probably only have 4-7people buying from my store, but hopefully will have 100,000 other retail stores under me—its distribution just like Papa Johns, or Starbucks, or McDonalds, etc. Papa Johns took 7 years to make money on pizza. All their money the first 7 years was selling franchises.

An independent artist can make a minimum of $.40 on a $.99 download and some will make $.60. Where else can an independent artist go and make that much money on their music within a distribution system of millions of sites.

MLM’s are the purest form of capitalism. You have no one to blame but yourself if you fail. Burn Lounge is not asking you to try an alternative product, just an alternative business structure to Itunes or the other digital stores.

Digital distribution is the future of music and movies, and MLM businesses are the business of the future. Those who are successful at MLM’s are entrepreneurial as are most really successful owners of traditional businesses. Some estimates are that 50% of American homes now have a home based business and most of those are MLM’s.

Everything in life is a gamble and those who have the most success don’t let their fears keep them from that success. What does anyone have to lose if Burn Lounge does fail? The $140 or $445 they spent. Most people we know can come up with $445 to spend on something "they just have to get", like an IPod or stereo. All of us have blown that much and more in a weekend before on food, drink, and a hotel at the last minute. Why not "invest" that little amount of money in a busiess venture that might be life changing? If all I ever make is $1000 per month 3 years from now but I am having fun with my own "record" store then what's the problem? Like anything in life it will be what I make it--no more and no less.

Peace,

Todd

[Lisa]

Do you think that the creators of BL have not heard any of these negative accusations when they were starting BL? They knew what they were getting into and they knew the hurdles that they would have to face. But they did it for a reason.

I love how "pyramid scheme" is being thrown around left and right without actually realizing WHAT exactly a pyramid scheme is. Sure it's easy to label a new company that when one does not truly understand the WHOLE picture of BurnLounge.

First let's talk about "pyramid schemes". In essence EVERY company is a type of pyramid, so understand that concept a little more. However, in pyramid schemes, they force someone to buy inventory or to buy fake product that they then must sell and if they don't they are stuck with that product and lose, right? Next in a pyramid scheme, they "force" other people to "recruit" other people to buy into their company and all the money FLOWS UPWARDS. The people at the bottom will never ever make more money than the people who are above them that brought them in and so on.
SO IN ESSENCE, in a pyramid scheme you have product you can't sell, so in order to make money you must recruit other people to buy in. All the money flows up and you will never make more than the person who brought you in. With me so far?

BurnLounge is a concentric retail CIRCLE, not PYRAMID. So what does this mean? For one, you do not have to buy inventory and the product you are selling is MUSIC, which um last time I did research was a uhhh... a legitimate product that sells. Next, you DO NOT HAVE to recruit other retailers into BurnLounge, you can do it by choice depending on just how much you want to get involved and how much money you want to make. If you want to stick with your own store, do it. Unlike a pyramid structure, I can actually make more money than the person who brought me in. The other week I said to the guy who brought me in, "Hey if you ever start making $10K a week off of me and my sales then you owe me dinner." And he said back to me, "Lisa, if I'm making $10K a week from you that means you are making more than me and YOU owe me dinner." And he's right. This is not possible in a pyramid structure, but in a circular structure where money has the ability to flow thru to different points. Get it? Probably not for the naysayers. But go ahead and draw a pyramid and cirle with rings and you tell me how the money flows.

Next thing I've seen a lot of on here = "But you have to sell thousands and thousands of downloads a month to break even! Therefore, it's a scheme!" Most of you naysayers are looking at our world of today. BurnLounge retailers are looking at our world of tomorrow. Today, download sales are increasing, but is everyone downloading? No, not even close. Today, I know everyone in my circle is downloading ringtones. Today, I might know one in every 10 people downloading music. Today, I might know one in every 50 people who are downloading movies. Today, I know of no one downloading tv shows or books. These are all things that we will be able to sell through BurnLounge within a year. Our society is moving towards digital downloading and moving quickly whether we want it to or not, it's happening. The person of today who is not downloading music, will be in the next few years. The person of today who is not downloading movies, will be in the next few years. Digital sales today will not even compare to the digital sales of tomorrow. Especially with all the technology that will continue to be available to us. Gadgets that don't exist today will exist tomorrow. BurnLounge requires visionaries who understand where our world is going and what our world will be like in the next 5-10 years. Step outside of your box and open your mind. For example, back in 1993 I read an article about how Japan was developing a computer chip where music could be stored as files. I laughed it off and thought, what are they doing? Music on a computer??? Nobody wants that! That will never fly. Who needs music on a computer when we have stereos, who would EVEN want music on a computer where you can't touch a physical CD and flip through a CD cover and read it. There was no place in the market for that and I couldn't visualize it ever happening. It was unheard of! BOOM! I am eating my words and have been for the last 8 years. So yes, there will increased downloading tomorrow that does not exist today and many people will be able to be a part of it if they are smart. Downloading of entertainment media will only increase. That is a fact.

So back to BurnLounge. Many people who get involved will probably fail. They might fail because they aren't business savvy, they might fail because they don't have the time, energy, effort to put into their BurnLounge store. For whatever reason, there will be failures. That is a fact. If you are worried about this, don't get involved. Not everyone wants to own their own online music store, but is it possible in a few years that eventually BurnLounge will have saturated the world market and it will be next to impossible to recruit new retailers? Sure it's possible and it's something that we as BurnLounge retailers know and understand. We have chosen to take that risk anyway. We have gotten in first and that gives us leverage to a person a year from now, but does that give us a guarantee? NO, if you expect a guarantee or a sure thing from any company then you need to crawl back into your hole. I have been laid off before, many of my peers have been laid off... so if any of us go on a job interview and get the job... do you really think that we feel 100% secure that we won't lose our job in the future? We KNOW it's a GREAT possibility that could happen. Do you think all of us BurnLounge retailers think that BL is a sure thing and we will get paid thousands? No, we know there are risks, but we believe in the concept of BL... we believe that giving artists a way to instantly distribute their music and sell it to the world in such an easy way is awesome. What other company has allowed this in such a way that little Joe down the street can now participate in this? We believe in the concept, we believe in all the things that BurnLounge will be doing aside from just selling music (Music btw will be our smallest profit margin). BurnLounge does tell you what you will get paid, I don’t know where your confusion is, but I know how much I get paid per song download. It tells me in my back office every time someone downloads a song from my site. BurnLounge is taking media distribution to a whole other level on a global scale, of course they need to cover their asses as far as payouts are concerned. Someone above says that they will recalculate if the payout is too high. I sincerely believe that BurnLounge will only be doing that in extreme cases should that ever happen. It’s all legalities that I am not worried at this point about. If you understood how much BL is putting themselves out on the line, you should be skeptical if they DON’T say things to cover themselves. I just bought a freaking GPS navigation system with a legal notice sticker that said DO NOT OPERATE WHILE IN A MOVING CAR. Come on!!! They said that to cover themselves from liability and any smart company does that. As far as advertising, they have to be careful. They want to preserve the branding of BL. They don’t want someone taking out a newspaper/magazine/billboard ad with a stripper spread eagle with BurnLounge tattooed on her woohoo. That is an extreme case, but since they are letting any Joe and Mary be a retailer they must be able to control to some degree what people are going to do with the namesake of BL. DUH. If many of us end up failing that's a risk we will have to take, but the concept of what BurnLounge is doing is unbelievable and the scope and level that they are planning to take it to is something that to me... is worth the risk of a couple hundred bucks.

Let’s rock ‘n roll,

Lisa T.
GETBESTMUSIC.com

[Ms. Tea]

That was a very good post Lisa. Either you believe in BL or you don't. Either way this train has left the station and is building steam. It's gonna keep moving whether you get on or not. Nuff Said

[Kim]

Well, I'm a working single Mother. I am tired of living paycheck to paycheck. I have been looking for other endeavors. I have never been one to get into any kind of money schemes, not even a sales jobs. But when I heard of Burnlounge, I just GOT IN!!

I didn't have to research it, didn't even go to a meeting. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or professional 'scheme researcher' to see that digital sales IS the future...PERIOD! And like the stock market, NOW is the time to get in.

And the 'big risk'? The $440 I spent to buy my site? I've spent that on toys that my boys have left in the driveway to get ran over. I've spent more than that on Christmas that in 6mo. were annialated and/or no longer to be found or even remembered! And the $14.95mo. it costs to manage the site? Well, lets see...I don't have to buy any inventory...millions of $$ of inventory is already there, the site is set-up and managed for me, the legal issues are taken care of and I spend $14.95 on eating out ONCE!

I've only been in a few weeks and have made my money back. Risk? The only risk is losing $440 ONCE! You can only lose ONCE! And I've never heard of anyone that put an ounce of effort into it that lost, but people lose more on buying junk they don't even need.

Why not invest it? THAT'S a risk, to blow your money and not invest it at least some for the future! If you keep the $440, where will that $440 be in 3-6mo.? If you don't have it to invest, you won't have it saved! So you might as well go for it!

This is not a get rich quick scheme, but a legitimate franchise retail buisness like Sam Goody that by the way is out of buisness due to digital and online sales. It's a franchise with a quality highly sought after product and the demands are just beginning.

And not knowing how much money? Well show me a company that does know thier exact sales profits and I'll show you a dying company. I work for one of the top 100 companies in the US and they don't know, but can only 'project' monthly/yearly profits. It's never exact, but they are one of the top companies so they do a pretty good job at it.

And risk? Well, my company has many industries and many products and is very successful all over the world, but they have industries that will flourish and industries that will fail. Those that fail are what BL calls roll-ups. They close and the profits roll-up. No risk there and like I said, you could only lose $440 ONCE! Try the stock-market!

Pyramid scheme? Hardly, the profits in a pyramid scheme get smaller and smaller until there's nothing left. BL has concentric retailing. EVERYONE all the way 'around' makes the same amount of money per sale! No scheme there.

Will there eventually be a downsloap, a tapering off of sales? Maybe in the store sales, but there will still be product to sell...and just like ebay, people love buying product online...period! And so what if there is? Now is the time to get in, and if there comes a day when sales are way down, YOU'RE STILL NOT LOSING, but can get out anytime and not have to worry about overhead, inventory etc.! Time to get in, time to get out! Simple.

And scheme or not (and it's certainly NOT!) if I make 'my' projected profits, I will be able to fund my boys college. If I do not, well, I didn't lose a thing and I have still made money while I sleep! Huge risk??...HARDLY! A way up and out for this single Mom?? maybe, possibly, highly likely!! Do I think I'm going to 'get rich quick'?? Nope, but this may just be my out to fund another endeavor!

I'll take my chances! I'm gonna get MY BLESSING And for all those who are wondering about the buisness??...now's the time to get in and get your blessing...or not! What have you got to lose that you haven't ever lost before?

Good luck and Love & Blessings to all!

[sevenm]

I thought I would add a brief technical response to those who think that Burnlounge is not compatible with iPods or iTunes. WMA (Windows Media Audio) is NOT a problem for iPod/ iTunes users on Windows. If the file is in WMA format, all the user has to do is drag it into iTunes just like any other song file on the HD. iTunes will automatically convert the WMA file to its native format (AAC) and then add it to the iTunes library where it can be used seamlessly with an iPod and everything else. Unfortunately, its not that simple on a Mac yet, but its still a "Windows world" right now :-)

[Brandon Enriquez]

I'm on the BurnLounge train and am very happy about it. I joined only 3 weeks ago and have added 7 members to my team not to mention all the members they've added. I've made more than double my money back in 3 weeks and the sky is the limit from here on. Kudos to those entrepreneurs out there who are posting here and defending their dreams. I really appreciate the inspiration. My goal is to generate an income of $10,000 per week. My business partner has been in BurnLounge for only 6 months and he's earning $20,000 per month. I'll have him show you how...
www.burnlounge.com/zenaudio (click "Become a Retailer")

[Carla Lynne Hall]

Thanks for the write-up on this. Here it is June 2006, and the buzz on Burn Lounge is crazy. People need to check out on anything that sounds too good to be true. Glad I found you via Google.

Carla Lynne Hall aka "The DIY Diva"
The DIY Guide to the Music Biz
http://www.DIYGuide-MusicBiz.com

[Triniti]

Hello Im Triniti in Atlanta Ga.
Im a producer/engineer.
Im also a Burnlounge retailer and I work with the world famous Chuck D of Public Enemy!!
Chuck D has been telling folks for years that all things are moving to digital. He was saying this like in the 90s.
I initialy looked at burnlounge as a simple way to have residence in the digital world of online presence and sales.
The fact that my artist could also be placed along side with his fav artist and or competitor, was a bonus!
At the end of the day I have a place online to sale my music and just incase no one enjoys my music but does enjoy Mc Lyte ....well they are right there close by. So who wins? Both I and my
artist and our competition cause we all get paid.

5 cents times however many records I can sale from folks I have not spoken to and dont know along with 50 cents from my own music..
....mmm so if I can duplicate that i would have created me getting 50 cents times however many folks sold my music for me,
just in case they dont sale my music I can make 2 cents off every thing elses. Sounds good to me cause when im sleep if 4 persons that I dont know brought in by someone 4 levels down decided to sale my music and someone elses music while im sleep, its like getting spare change over and over. Remember for me it was simply the fact that I could have a place to sale my music!

I was looking to have a web site done!
The Alternative would have been what?
Have a webpage built.( mind you with only my content no one elses! No ringtons no movies no games just my own music and my own effort.. Burnlouge looked so much better being that I get these extras for free is cool!

Im building a great team of professionals in the music Bizz and just every day folks.
I also work with 3 major labels and understand what they love and how they get paid and understand that the artist is the first person they need but the last one to get paid.
For New Artist there are reasons being that the Artist has no money to promote himself and the label fronts the money and the Artist pays in the end. At least Burnlounge can take that same artist and pay him more for his sales if he thinks he can sale himself well...get out there and sale it and just incase for his/her benifit there are extras all made to help him get paid.
For established artists, they can use their celeberty and fan base to draw folks unto them and make more on the dollar and sale other folks content.
So from this standpoint where is burnlounge ste to fail! The only one that could fail is Me.
I think most are just scared... to spend the money and are skeptical and need a reason to justify their fear instead of just saying well its not for me but its a great deal.

People tend to be as such.... If I told you " go over there and press a key on the keyboard and I will pay you 100 bucks...

one person thinks and keeps asking me questions such as "what if i press 2 keys or what if I press the key and it dont go down"

While the other person has went and pressed the key and came back and got paid 100 and in excitment has told others leading to me telling hundreds of folks to go press the keyboard and get paid and them doing the same causing alot of folks talking over this simple stupid way to get 100 bucks. many of the folks being friends with the one with all the questions.

The strange part is that the persons that are skeptical of Burnlonge wants burnlounge to fail.
being skeptical is cool but why not look at it from an objectional standpoint. Looking at what can help it become better instead of focusin on how bad it could be !!
I could say the same " Your never going to date her your just to ugly ,, and you have no job and she will never consider you.. not knowing the woman was looking for someone just like you!!

its funny cause I have someone on my team that has not built one person under them but has sold music and the only income seen from them are
music sales. Besides this person has people under them but these folks where placed there by someone above them thus benifiting off that effort not their own.

Im glad i was not so skeptical and just did it!
my store is www.zellymusic.com ( www.burnlounge.com/trnmusic )

BY THE WAY FLAVOR FLAV and PROFESSOR GRIFF OF PUBLIC ENEMY IS RETAILERS AS WELL AS MCLYTE.

[Professor Blather]

Okay, how about an objective opinion from someone without an axe to grind, who's actually a Mogul, and who is not one of these cultish fan boys?

Here it is:

In January a friend approached me about BurnLounge, so excited he was about to pop. I said sure - why not? That $450 figure is only if you're stupid enough to purchase the utterly useless "university package." My initial investment was just $140 or so.

(For those not in the know - the "university package" is pushed HEAVILY because (OF COURSE!) it makes the guy who sells it to you a nice chunk of change. The only actual money I've seen from BurnLounge came from - you guessed it! - the idiot I signed up who blew $300 on the "university package." So what IS the university package? It's a bunch of CD/DVD's that help you convince OTHER people to sign up - sort of like those marketing things you see on 4:00 a.m. infomercials. And yes, you read right. For half a dozen DVD's, you pay THREE HUNDRED bucks. But hey, the guy right above you makes like $50 off your stupidity, so that's cool, right?)

It's now been more than five months since I signed up. I told the pal who got me into it that my own business was far too busy at the moment to do much with it for at least six months (and besides, I actually MAKE money with my own company :) )

So I signed up one guy, and then watched. Just watched to see what would happen. Here's the results:

The guy I signed up went NUTS. He sounds just like these BurnLounge cult members in this thread. And make no mistake: cult members is just what they sound like.

Since January, it's taken over his life. He goes to weekly "meetings"; sends e-mails constantly (actually I get e-mails all the time from my "team leader" and another guy above him. I finally had to put blocks on both their e-mails). He's constantly on conference calls. Last weekend he (and the guy who got me into it) went to Vegas for the big launch (laugh).

In short, this guy has been more into this then anyone you could imagine. It would be literally impossible to work harder. Because of him, I now have (last I checked) something lke 11,000 points and 33 moguls on my "A" side.

(Another note for those not in the know: the BurnLounge binary system means you only get money if you keep the two chains beneath you balanced. Thus, even though the guy I signed up has signed up 25 people or so - I get NOTHING, because there's nobody on my other side.)

Wait - I take that back. Every time the dork beneath me buys a song I get 5 cents. Whoopie.

Alright, so he's the perfect little BurnLounger right? He now has a frickin' bumper sticker on his car. Its all he talks about. I can't even stand to be around the guy anymore because of it.

He MUST be rich, right? Right, burn cultists?

Now don't laugh. In those almost 6 months, he's GROSSED under $900. (Because he's in my downstream, I can monitor his "burn rewards"). That's it. $900. To be fair, his A and B sides are slightly unbalanced; if he could get more on one side, he could pop up to about $1400.

He's made just about NOTHING selling music. No one has, as far as I can tell.

But wait - it gets better. Or worse, depending on whether you're a cult member. From that roughtly $880 he's made, you have to SUBTRACT the (these figures are rough - I'm working from memory) $100 initial fee and the $29.95 initial fee (lots of fees, huh?) and the monthly fee of like $12 (that I'm still paying, cuz I'm a sucker) .... and best of all, the THREE HUNDRED he paid for a few lousy DVD's.

So now he's netted no more than $400 in almost six months.

But WAIT - there's more. How about you throw in all the money he's spent going to these weekly meetings at bars and restaurants! Now throw in the big bucks he spent going out to Las Vegas last weekend.

And guess what? He's in the red. After six months in BurnLounge, as an absolute true believer sending me all the e-mails that have been cut and pasted word for word into this very thread, he's LOST MONEY.

There's the truth about BurnLounge.

Now some more truth: despite all the protests to the contrary, it is a CLASSIC MLM pyramid scheme. In fact, its just a chain letter. The innovative (read: ridiculous and needlessly complex) compensation system and the fact that they at least pretend to offer a product keeps them legal - but the economics are PURE MLM.

There is one way and one way only to make money: to sign up people beneath you and take THEIR money. Then they sign up people and you get some of THEIR money (via points, have to be balanced, etc.)

That's the only place money comes from - from your downstream. Which means that, like every other pyramid scheme, only those at the top make money. I actually do think the guy who signed me up will make a couple thousand, although that would mean he's been making about a dime an hour.

And here's the worst (or best) -- it seems to be slowing down. For awhile, that one side of my downstream was growing rapidly. Now its almost stopped.

In short, that first saturation point is already here. And the only way to get past it is to take money from new suckers by convincing them the chain letter will never end.

Are you bummed out yet?

If you don't beleive me, just look at it and do the math. Better yet, just LISTEN to the way the true believers sound. The logic of it is absolutely clear, but they ignore it -- they sound like Tom Cruise preaching about Scientology. I swear to God, it's like a cult. And the biggest part of any cult is believing the leaders even when the plain truth obviously isn't what you're being told.

Can you make money? Theoretically. You can with a chain letter, too. If you have TONS of friends who will sign up, and THEY have TONS of friends, and THEY all do ... and they all keep it going ... you might make some money.

Good luck with that. Remember, I've watched a guy pour his whole life into this. Six months later, he hasn't gained a penny.

No one will ever make money selling music (or any other media) on burnlounge. Ever. Not a chance. The profit margins are too small, there's too much competition .... and of course, the idiots decided not to make it iPod compatible. That has to rank up there with the worst business models in history. Why not make a tissue box holder that can't hold Kleenex? How about a device for bandages that doesn't work Band-Aids? See my point?

And another kicker: you CAN'T ADVERTISE your site - so you'll never get mass traffic there. The ONLY way you might make money on music is 1) if you are a webmaster/owner of a very high traffic site already, and 2) you can drive a big chunk of your traffic to your burnlounge site, and 3) people actually buy music there.

Wait - more funny stuff. Guess what they charge for music? Yup. 99 cents. So there is absolutely no advantage to buying from a BurnLounge retailer. Not one. Especially not when YOU OWN AN iPOD!!!!

Want a really good laugh? Even though I have a burnlounge site, I PERSONALLY still buy my music through iTunes. How funny is that? Why? Well - because 1) burnlounge is a pain in the ass with a horrible interactive setup, and 2) because I - like everyone on the planet - own a frickin' iPod.

Laughing (or crying) yet?

And then we get to the very last desperate claim of the BurnLounge fanboys --- the "indie music" thing. It's so dumb I hate to have to explain it, but here goes: what POSSIBLE advantage does BurnLounge have over any OTHER website for selling indie music? Somebody name me JUST ONE. Hell, if I was an unknown band I'd just do what somebody suggested above and create my own cheap website. Why not? At least I could ADVERTISE that site!

But wait - what about me?

Well, I spent the initial $140. Plus that monthly fee for six months. I got a check for $50, thanks to the chump who bought those oh-so-valuable DVD's for $300. That's it. 33 moguls on one side, none on the other. Not ONE of those 33 has made any decent money. Not one has gone past $1000 GROSS - not to mention net.

So why am I still paying the monthly fee? Because my own business is slowing down a bit (what I made in the last six months would have taken me a few thousand years as a BurnLounge nutcase) ... and I thought I'd try and sign up at least a few people. Maybe balance out that A and B, right? Maybe get my missing $100 back.

Of course -- I'm finding it hard, since I know people will just lose money, and I know the whole thing will ultimately fail within five years (unless someone buys them out, as noted above). Since I like looking at myself in the mirror, its not so easy to sell the thing. I'll probably still find a few chumps (probably among my own customers. and I'll burn in Hell for it. Pun intended).

Or maybe after reading this thread, I'll just go un-sign up right now. I know its the smart thing to do. I'm sure its the moral thing to do.

There you have it. The truth, from the inside.

It's just a pyramid. Just a chain letter. If you think you can make the pyramid work, have fun. Although at this point, the prospects may already be part of someone else's chain letter.

Or - you could just start a legitimate business. Or get an education and find a high-paying job.

Your choice.

But I promise you this: if you believe ANYTHING that the BurnLounge cut and pasters in this thread are throwing at you, you WILL regret it. That I guarantee.

[Hard at work building BurnLounge]

Boy you guys are impatient... you expect to be making money instantly. The company just came out of beta... they haven't even done their official PR campaign yet to announce themselves to the world. You are expecting to start a business and make money right off the bat. Hello delusional!

You need to treat this as any other start up company, one that grows over time and builds revenue. Most people that buy a franchise in a chain restaurant don't start making money until after the first year or two when they finally break even from their initial overhead costs. Some restaurants don't start seeing a profit until after 5 years. That's why most restaurants go out of business. So are restaurant franchises a scheme?

Get real people, give it some time. People are so lazy, you think that just because your pockets aren't filling within 3 - 6 months that automatically makes BurnLounge a scheme. And guess what... you probably stink at marketing and don't know the first thing about driving traffic to your site. So maybe you should take the blame for being a lousy business person. BurnLounge is trying to do something good for the music business... in fact they are doing something GREAT for the music business... you cry over .05 cents a song... well were you making anything off a Madonna or Kid Rock song before? Didn't think so. You're not seeing the sales you want, guess what... it takes time to build up a business base.

There are way too many lazy people that expect a return for nothing. Why don't you wait to see what BurnLounge does after a year or two of being public in the marketplace. Then maybe you will have valid reasons for your arguments.

Most of you probably work for iTunes anyway. Yes iTunes has an overwhelming dominance of the marketshare. They were one of the first to get in on digital downloading to the consumer market. That's why! It takes time to chip away at someone's hold... hello Pepsi... it took them awhile to cut into Coke's share. It will take some time to break the hold iTunes has but it can be done because BurnLounge has a different model and there's always room for competitors... and that's for any industry. BurnLounge did this model for a very good reason... and not to take people's money and run.

[bob]

well if burnlounge is so bad why have alabama, jeff gordon, dale earnheart, senators, and more big important people opening there own burn lounges? Why do the have contracts with universal, warner bros, sony and more major players, such as muze? and yes u do get 5 cents per song downloaded, but did you know thast you get 50 dollars for every person that sign up to be a retailer off you store, and you get to take 2 cents out of every download that comes out of there store, and who ever they sign up u get 2cents out of theres as well. so why not sign up try it for a month or two if you try to make it work you'll make your money back.

[Homer]

And we should listen to the arguments of people who don't know the difference between "there" and "their"?

[Brian]

Tony,
I worked with some of the richest people in world at a 5 star resort for many years. One thing they all say to make alot of money you better find a way to leverage your time and to make a small amount of money off of alot of people!! Obviously he has not looked at the compensation plan to see that you have to sell 2 CD's to a NON BURNLOUNGE retailer to activate your account.
Obviously Tony must have never owned a business because $600 a year to run a business is alot of money??
Tony, let me ask you this. Would The Elvis foundation sign up for some 'scam' business??
Have you heard of Rick Dees?? The number 2 investor in the company. Have you been in the music business as long as Rick Dees??
I suppose Tony is one of those people that has an excuse why he doesnt make money?? It is always someone elses 'fault' and not mine.
This is the best thing to happen to the music industry in the last decade.
You probably pirate your music through Kazaa and say this is the perfect business model. Steal the music. Just another 'ignorant' commentary from someone who probably makes an hourly wage which of course is the American Dream.
Brian

[Tony Zeoli]

To Brian and all those other Burnloungers out there who say I don't know what I'm talking about, thanks for your responses but I'm still not convinced.

In fact, after going through the BurnLounge web site with fine detail a week or so ago, just to see what has or hasn't changed, I noticed that stuck somewhere in the fine print was the statement that Burnlounge works only with Windows Media DRM'd files.

Brian, I've read so many postings on this subject since I posted about it after I attended the first BurnLounge New York event at Coffee Shop, sometime back in the early Spring. Since that time, I've watched many BurnLounge store owners generate preachy e-mail marketing messages that sound cult-like in their authoriship and actually scare me into not wanting to use BurnLounge. Just the simple fact that the company allows its partners to create their own marketing messages confuses the marketplace. Business 101 tells you that you must be on point and on message. One message to the market, not 20,000 individual messages, some of which are half baked and to be quite honest, fruit cake.

I see from many of the messages that there are admissions that much of the money going to BurnLounge moguls is from individual sign-ups and not from music sales. Brian said something about a requirment that says you must sell your first two downloads to a non-Burnlounger in order to activate your account. But what happens when everyone you know becomes a BurnLounger, then the pot of new people to sell to becomes infinitely smaller!

So, what is it? You want to sell music, or you want to sign up other people to learn how to be a BurnLounger and dilute the value of the organization and the pool of music buyers?

Way up at the top of the post, some idiot said that all the major labels are involved, so it must be legit. Well, first of all, when did you know a major label to have the business practices of a concerned and reputable organization? Major labels are so concerned about their profiles in the marketplace, hell, their suing their users, inserting code onto CD's to limit piracy and track usage and milking artists for every penny they can get.

I don't think major record labels are the angelic institutions people assume they are. They are profit driven corporations looking to squeeze the last penny out of every artist on their rosters. And you say they are the good guys? HA!

Oh, and by the way, it's not the major labels who are in bed with BurnLounge. That's right. It's LoudEye, the company that was just acquired by Nokia. Without LoudEye, BurnLounge would never exist. All BurnLounge does, is license catalog from LoudEye. So, after the label takes it's piece, LoudEye takes their piece and BurnLounge takes a piece, the rest of the pie is split between the BurnLounger, whoever his "mogul" is and maybe downstream a bit to other BurnLoungers who got suckered into spending all that money on a start-up kit.

My opinion remains bearish on BurnLounge. I don't think they are a transparent and honest organization. As far as Rick Dee's in concerned, why are you listening to what Rick Dee's has to say? And he's not even saying anything. You just believe because Rick Dee's is involved, then it must be legit. If you believe that, then I have a bridge I want to sell you...

Not one BurnLounger has convinced me that BurnLounge is not a get-rich-quick ponzi-scheme that unfortunately, many people can't see through.

It's a sad state of affairs in this country, when this is the case. My fellow Americans who buy into this BurnLounge escapade...I feel real bad for you.

As far as Apple building something to allow BurnLoungers to play AAC files, I highly doubt that and consider it part of the rumor mill.

The folks at Apple want to drive people to Apple's iTunes's store, and not to Burnlounge. I highly doubt that statement to be the truth.

Finally, I am not shilling for posts to my web page. Why would I do that when I have such a juicy topic to discuss with my readers that is far and away, and outright ponzi scheme, if I ever saw one!

[John]

The one important thing that I have noticed after reading this thread is that as the dates get closer to the current date, the more famous and successful people in the music industry have joined burnlounge. Also, noticed in doing my research that Shaq has a burnlounge and that Live Nation, who now owns House of Blues, just signed a deal with Burnlounge to sell their concert tickets and offer VIP packages to the Burnlounge retailers as well. Its not as early anymore as it was when this thread started and I have not seen a momentum slowdown. And I am speaking only of the famous people who keep getting more and more involved. I think I will invest in the burnlounge model because I can't help but notice that this is the same way myspace exploded. Maybe I'm right and maybe I am wrong but 450.00 is a drop in the bucket and those getting involved are asking their business advisors' oppinions and it has not showed any signs of deterance. Comments?

[Tony Zeoli]

John:

I've been in the Internet business since 1995 and lived through the boom and bust cycle. Just because "celebrities" endorse Burnlounge or have affiliate stores doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be successful. So, Shaq has a store? What does that mean for the average Burnlounger? Well, you're competing with Shaq's store, for one. How many people are buying from Shaq? How much does it cost for Shaq to market his Burnlounge store, when he's already got high profile going in. For the lay person who doesn't have the profile Shaq has, you're going to have to work 10 times as hard for your first sale, then he has to. And, what are the terms of his deal? No one knows, because no one will tell you. Does Shaq get a Burnlounge store for "free" for his participation, which will then entice other users, like you, to pay the $400 to $600 for mogul status. Then, what do you have to invest to get a return?

MySpace exploded because it's a free place for young people to express themselves without interference from "the man." Now that that has changed, we'll see how MySpace balances corporate responsibility with edgy, underground content.

Having been an executive in the Internet industry for over 10-years, I have many friends and colleagues who are not convinced that Burnlounge is a good investment. They lack transparency in their organization, which means they don't post any specific information about rev/share splits or the fact that you can't play a BurnLounge download on an iPod. They have little commitment to customer service other than an email address.

That scares me, and it should scare you too.

Tony Z.

[Lacey]

Can someone please explain to me what I would actually have to do to get my website up and running and then how I would get people to go to my site. Any help would be appreciated!

[stephen]

I was curious why nobody has broken down the payout arrangements for the highly touted "mogul" pyramid tree, so I did it myself. The most money that anyone can make (and I mean MOST) is $9,600. That is under perfect circumstances, ie, everyone you sign up gets there full amount of "recruitments" on both sides of the AB payout scale. I will not get into the difficulties of the A side must correspond with B side faults, rather just deal with hypothetical caps. The set up is where each member can get only two people directly under them, and capping out at level 6. That means you get 2, those get 4, etc. The breakdown is 2+4+8+16+32+64=126. That means that the max payout is $50*126 subordinate retailers. This totals $6,600. I'll give $3,000 for point to dollar payout when both sides match retailers (which is very difficult by the way and I am definitely high-balling it). Therefore this shows that the max one can make, and I mean max, is $9,600. Do not believe the $10,000 monthly checks hype, because average people (new retailers) aren't able to produce that amount due to the 6 ring/level cap. If anyone has filled their entire Pyramid with the entire 126 "suckers" congrats, but the payout is not as enticing as all of these burnlounge slogan regurgitating suckers would have you believe.

[ms]

Pardon me but you don't know what you are talking about- the cap is only related to one part of the business and I am not going to explain it to you. Your facts are incorrect. If you really want to know the payout facts go to a meeting where they will explain it to you- otherwise don't waste your time calculating false information.
Peace out

[musicman]

If hundreds of thousands of people sign up, what “burn lounge” music store will make it big? The one that has money for advertising, time to market and promote. Not all 50,000 “record stores” will be able to make it especially with yearly and sometime monthly dues to pay which can be in excess of $400.

And who cares what the artist makes? That isn’t my opinion, but will be the opinion of many. They just want their music.

Another problem and more importantly, is that in order to compete with I-Tunes there has to be a competitor with the I-Pod, which there is none in sight. People will continue to use I-tunes because they have an I-pod and it is easier to use and I-pod with I-tunes than any other medium.

[EBZAR]

WOW -this topic is getting heated. But I have to agree, with 50.000 or more stores up and were all selling the same music why would anyone come to my site to download. The best way for a mogul to make money is to sign up moguls.

[Adam]

Well this has been interesting reading. I just finished going through this entire thread. Lets be realistic hear for a minute (from both sides). For

the record I am a Burnlounge VIP Mogul.

The fact is that there is allot about this company that should raise flags, that is true.

1. I don't think their software is perfect and I have found bugs.
2. They don't really have a customer service department other than email.
3. The commission structure is confusing and there is language in the contracts which seem shady.
4. The margin on the music is almost non existent.

Now lets look at the following.

If any of you are business people that have been involved in a start up, then you will know that these things are actually part of the road to

maturity. I promise you that the beginnings of Microsoft, if you look at it, look very very shady, but who would not like to have been on that boat.

They will get the bugs worked out.
They will get a better customer service department.
As for the contract, well they are in business and I would expect them to cover there self. Remember we are investing a very small amount and

they have invested a very large amount.
Yes right now most of anyone's profit will come from recruiting other stores, but as new products are add in the 1st Q of 2007 that will start to

change. Of course that is if you are promoting your store.
Anyone that thinks this is a get rich quick plan, well there is no such thing. Now if you are a smart business person then you will think out side

the box and realize the potential, but this will take work and most likely more than the few hundred dollar investment for signing up. There will be

material cost, advertising cost, etc. The potential is there is you are willing to think outside the box and work at it. If you think you can sign up

sit back and make millions then you don't live in reality anyway.

As for me, I will make a lot of money through this. Not just through recruitment but through multiple avenues. For those of you that are signed

up, remember you are the only one that can make it work. For those of you that think it’s a scam, well you can make it work even if you wanted,

so good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Most important thing, is in business keep an open mind, think outside the box, and realize that there is no suck thing as free money. You must

work for it, but there is plenty out there.

[Randy]

The problem with MLM is not that it is MLM. It is that MLM companies do not "qualify" anyone to be a part of their business model. If you have a pulse and credit card you can get in. I am not affiliated with BurnLounge.Com in any degree and I have not signed up. But I have been in business for myself and co-ventures for a very long time. BurnLounge.Com will get people signed up that do not know an MP3 from their email address. They will know little about music and very little about retail or business in general and little about the e-world. These people will fail and they will be your naysayers in the long run. BL will also get people who have worked in retail, played music, have music hearts, understand business and they will have success and post positive results. The fact that it is BL is irrelevant. MLM does not qualify people on the front end so you get some real misfits in the fold. If you feel BL is for you you reserve the right to try it. I have pissed away more in towing bills, parking tickets and overdraft charges than it is asking for initially. If you really feel strong about this and have a background and love and desire that qualifies you. The problem with MLM in general is that people are brought on board that want it all now, want a get rich quick scheme, want to take a pill and be rich and have never owned their own business, have no hunger or desire to seal the deal. It does not matter if it is BurnLounge.Com or an MLM vitamin company. This is the repuatation MLM has. People make money in MLM. They make money in their own business. A successful MLM person is a rare breed. One with thick skin and many other traits. My only concern is that I would never involve myself with any business venture that is "capped". Anyway this investment is small potatoes compared to what is going on in startup business costs on your own nickel. If you feel it go for it.

[MUSIC GURU]

WOW, BURN LOUNGE WILL GET YOU NOTHING. THIS IS TO BE THE BIGGEST SCAM THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. ONLY PEOPLE TO MAKE MONEY ARE THE SCUM BAGS AT BURNLOUNGE. ONE THING IS FOR SURE YOU WILL GET BURNED IN THE END.

[jscott]

I've been approached about signing up for BL and have a few questions about it. Can someone please answer these? Note, I have nothing for or against BL at this time. I'm just trying to make an informed decision. If anyone chooses to answer these questions I ask one thing. Please don't answer by telling me how many celebrities are involved. I care very little about that and it should be left to the marketing side of BL not as a selling tool to get investors. Also please don't tell me that I don't "get it". I do. I know content is going be mostly digitally distributed someday. But will it be BL doing it? I'm not so sure.

1. Why does BL need or want all of these individual stores?
I listened in on a conference call and the repeated statement was "its all about distribution". But, this confuses me. Yes, its all about distribution when you have a physical product to sell but this is digital content being distributed from a central source (Burnlounge servers). So if there is no physical inventory why do they need all of these stores? The only reason I keep coming back to is, because they can sell a $440 package to all of these people.

2. After the market has been saturated with stores how will content sales keep you afloat?
There is money to be made on selling the store packages no doubt. But that will only go for so long. If you are looking at a long term business I'm not seeing how this is attainable for an "average Joe" store owner. In the conference call BL they said they only want 1-5% of the online content distribution industry. The idea is you set up a store and sell to yourself and your friends and family. But aren't your friends and family the very people you are going after to sell stores to? So if you have all your friends and family as store owners how are you going to sell content to them? This seems to be a cannibalizing, no?

3. As for getting paid on content from your downline, I see a problem with the math. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the way I see it for every song sold there are 6 store owners being paid. The person who sold it gets .05¢ and then 5 others get .02¢ for a total of 15¢. That leaves 84¢. Now I don't know exactly what the labels get paid but I've heard its around .70¢. So this leaves .14¢ for BL. That's not a lot of profit. I realize they are banking on selling lots of content but even if they sell 100,000,000 songs that only amounts to $14,000,000. That isn't chump change but its also not enough revenue to keep a company as big as BL is predicting it will be afloat.

4. What is BL going to do about integrating their content with entertainment hardware?
The content is only good if you can easily transfer it to other entertainment devices, you can only get so much out of a computer especially if they bring movies, ringtones and other media online.
A lot of people have complained about BL using WMA files because they are incompatible with iPods. They had no choice here. In order for BL to have a DRM files they had no other choice but to go with WMA as Apple is keeping their Fairplay DRM a closed format. And they have no reason to do otherwise at this point. So what are they going to do? If BL were able to intoduce a component that would tap into a home network and connect into your entertainment center devices, similar to Apples iTV coming out next year, they would really have something going.

I think BL can be great for a few people. those being an indie artist who doesn't want to or can't sign with a major label or a high profile celebrity that has the ability to pimp their store to a large audience. Because after the distribution ramp up plateaus its going to take the sale of lots of content to make money. Right?

Thanks,
JS

[Joe]

This is obviously a never ending battle and no one will come out a winner anytime soon. This is apparant because this whole marketing scheme just surfaced. Personally, I would have to agree that there are a lot of loop holes and that some simple questions were not answered. Here are a couple of things I noticed during my experience with one of these seminars.

1) The presenter introduced people from the audience who were part of the program and I counted 10 people. What I find intriguing is everything about the people who were chosen to speak. It was the same typical fill in the blank presentation that sounded like this: "I just joined ______ weeks ago (three was the frequent number) and I began with ____ (typically between 100-300) a week and now I am earning ______ (a couple thousand was the frequent number)." This format applied to every single person who spoke at the presentation.

2) It was interesting that presenters were repeating how bad the governemnt is and how they were out to get "our" money. Time and time again I heard the same arguement made that this was a safe program to pursue. If its legal, where is the legal documentation at the seminar and where is it on the website?

3) A lot of circuitous language was thrown out there to simplify the process but in actuality precise wording would better explain what their aiming for. This is a "pyrmaid scheme" and people who say otherwise are obviously hiding the matter of fact. If you are part of a network and that its your duty to recurit others then obviously it follows the "pyrmaid scheme." It was amusing how the presenters tried to reinterperate pyrmaid in many different ways: network, connections, myspace, community, friendships=prymaid.

4) Perks always came up but the most overly stated and stressed was the "prymaid". The typical "hey man, you got friends in the business who can hook you up. I just got this armani suit from a friend in Austin who flew to California and offered it as a present in a deal that I made with him exclusively." The best way that describes this is the "domino" effect when one action results in another which seems to cascade into infinite. Every single story fit this model and not one single person deviated from the model.

5) BurnLounge claims to combine myspace, itunes, aim, netflicks, and the entire universe into one program. Sounds like a monopoly to me. Ironic when they stated that they were trying to combat the "apple monopoly giant." Did anyone catch that?

Whether it works or not is another story. I remain skeptical only because this has been the fourth seminar that I have sat in and BurnLounge hasnt offered me anything new. If you paid any attention it simply becomes a practice of how to reword something you have already heard. If you couldnt figure that out than it would be the best time to go back to school.

[usburnlounge]

Here is the deal on burnlounge from a "Mogul":

I have been a retailer for 6 months now and paid for and built my own website to promote my "store". I have had many meetings and presentations at bars and restaurants in an attempt to build my downline. I don't care how burnlounge promotes this - it is a MLM or Ponzi scheme. So far I have signed up a whopping 2 people and they have signed a total of 3, my up line who thought this was the next coming of christ has signed up 2.. so we are 7 strong in 6 months??? I have spent $2679 out of my own pocket setting up "meetings", lunches, dinners, website, monthly fees, required album purchases (Yes you have to purchase an album per month to kep your Mogul status) plus have spent over 200 hours of my time on this so called business. Here's the other thing; once you sign up all your friends and family, they now become competition to your music store. Yes, you get a coupe of cents for their music sales and a piece of their "recruits" but they are promoting their business now not yours.

My income from being a Mogul has been $287 for a return of -$2392 not counting my time. As a consultant in my day job I charge $110/hr so let's say I cut that in half and call it $55/hr x 200 hours ... $11,000. So if this is getting RICH, I want to be poor!!

I am sure there are plenty of people making some money on this, but it is certainly not from the downloading of music, it is recruiting memberships, so if you have a huge family and network of friends will to pay $600 to get in, invest additional "promotional" money, tons of time and believe in network marketing then Get In Now! Go to my site and sign up and that help will cut my loss to -$13,352 because I'll make $50 bucks!!

www.getinnowburnlounge.com

AJM

[CH]

Welcome to MLM and the perils of a binary pay plan with a product that has little or no residual. I've spent the last 20 years of my life in mlm as a distributor, owner, consultant, developer and everything in between. Most MLM Companies and especially ones promoting a binary pay plan ARE DOOMED before they even start because of incompetent owners with no little or no business acumen. How about the owner I consulted for in no-where Alabama... we went from 100K a month in sales to 500K in sales A DAY (that's right 15Million a month).. 1500 sales a day and after 3 months... we were still driving through the drive through of the local bank depositing $500K a day in printed deposits until going online and then his cheap programmers screwed up the software and he debited/credited/debited hundreds of thousands of people's accounts in one day... Nightmare! Do your homework. If it sounds too good to be true. IT IS!

[g neil]

One of my partners at work got invlved with Burnlounge this summer (2006) and is now making crazy money with this. I personally saw one of his checks a few weeks back for over $11,000. Great I said, but last week when I saw one for over $23,000 I jumped in. (BTW, I made a PDF of this check.)
There are just under 50,000 members in burnlounge now with projections of over 5 million over the next couple of years. That means huge $$$ for those getting onboard now!
Robert Kiyosaki, the guy who wrote "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" explans that the rich do so through "leverage"... leverage of time, money, other people, technology, knowledge, etc. Getting onto a new wave of a rapidly developing long-term trend (Digital downloading of music, video, e-books etc) with literally millions of people climbing on board BEHIND you, well... TALK ABOUT LEVERAGE!!!
Check it out for yourself at yourburnteam.com then register YOURSELF at burnlounge.com/easygz
Catch the wave!

[JimM]

Here is my question for all of this. So how is this different from Papa John's Pizza? He didn't make millions selling $10 pizza, did he? No, he sold franchises for $350,000 a pop> Did he make millions? Yo u bet he did. And he did it over and over again until he was set up in every community throughout the country! $350,000 each and every time! Guess what? The franchises are gone becaus ethey are located in every community across the nation! Does he have competition? DUH! Of course he does! But guess what, he is now making millions of dollars selling $10 pizzas! SO guess what, Papa Johns is a network marketing compnay! Guess what, name one company that is not set upo like a network marketing company> CEO, VPs, Directors, Managers,Employees- but the big difference is everything goes up to the CEO and the employees have no chance of making the same amount of money or more than the CEO! Guess what, in network marketing, the average Joe has that chance! You just need to be willing to work at it! So, do you get it!

[DT]

JimM,

The Papa John's Pizza analogy is not the same as in BL's situation. Its true that selling franchises in the beginning will help distribute their $10 pizza (or in this case, the $0.99 song) more. But think of it this way: did the franchisees have to sell franchise packets in order to continue business and rely on their franchisees for leverage?

Basically with Papa John's, there are only two levels: Papa Johns and the franchises. With BL, the franchisees need to sell more "franchise packages" to other potential franchisees.. and the cycle continues.

Think of a better analogy next time.

[PB]

He can't think of a better analogy then PapaJohn's - it's the one the Burnlounge cult uses the most often when they're programming their zombies.

Two problems with it: first, like all of the "franchise" analogies, it makes no sense at all. People who buy PapaJohn's franchises have a unique product (Burnlounge doesn't), a corporate entity marketing that product for them (Burnlounge doesn't), and protected territory (meanwhile Burnlounge tries to get you to sign up the same suckers who you'll be begging to buy your music). More importantly, you buy a PapaJohn's franchise TO SELL PIZZAS. That's it. That's where your money comes from. Pizza sales.

If you join Burnlounge ... you spend all your time trying to get other people to join Burnlounge. NOBODY makes decent money selling products. Thus, technically, logically, and legally, IT IS A PYRAMID SCAM. Don't believe me? Just ask any Burnlounger to show you EXACTLY what they're making from sign-ups versus sales.

But the second problem with the PapaJohn's analogy is this - it's a lie. The whole thing is a lie. The way they tell the story, John Schattner (the founder - not "Michael Papajohn" like some idiot Burnloungers claim) immediately started selling franchises - they'll even tell you that.

It's a lie. Go to Papajohns.com (or Google it) and read the actual company history. It is nothing like Burnlounge claims it is. Go read it. For the first two full years, he only had two stores - both of which he owned.

Everything about Burnlounge is a lie. This endlessly repeated PapaJohn's crap is just one of the sillier parts of the lie. Wait until they start asking you if you want Steve Jobs to get all your money ... or if you'd like to be Bill Gates' best friend ...

[Jack Smith]

Anyone got any experiences to share regarding Indie911??

[Jerry]

BurnLounge 2.0 is failing and retailers are leaving in droves. Check out this guy's true life experience as a BurnLounge retailer: http://burnlounge.wealthmanagers101.com. Notice how his initial excitement turned to total disappointment. You have to read this before you sign up.

[eg]

I'm interested to hear from some of the indie artist; is BL TRULY an opportunity to get their products out?

[AM Heino]

Here's a powerful message from a Burnlounge retailer that everyone should read;

Don't
get
caught up in the minutia...BUILD it and they will come...We are the
pioneers
right now...It isn't all perfect yet, but that is EXACTLY why it is the
number one opportunity you'll ever see in your business life...

We are not trying to get anyone to convert from MySpace. Facebook
does not
either, neither does YouTube. We are certainly way too early for a
lot of
people. The floodgates will open in 9 to 18 months when the world is
downloading everything. BUT, I want to be a pioneer, not a
settler. The
pioneers take arrows in the back, have massive casualties, and some
of them
end up bruised and banged up. But they are the ones that own the
land. The
settlers will come and it will be easy for them. For people that do not
have a pioneering spirit, they should not try to build a Burnlounge
business
(right now) - let them come on board later when it will be easier,
but let
it be known that there will be pioneers that stake claim this
year!!!! No
different than the Gold Rush of the 1800s. You have that opportunity
NOW!
It certainly wont be easy, but it sure will be worth it!

Jared Burnett -

[Marilou]

I have a question to anyone reading this blog: HOW MANY SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEURS or EVEN MILLIONAIRES DO YOU KNOW THAT WILL SPEND TIME AND ENERGY CRITISIZING A COMPANY ON A BLOG? DON'T YOU THINK THEY HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH THEIR TIME?

Note to all the ANTI-BURNLOUNGERS: Get the facts before you start critizing the company. Don't try and ruin it for those who are trying to build an honest and successful business. Burnlounge has paid over 12 million dollars in commissions to RETAILERS last year. Millionaires, Celebrities and the average joe are all participating. Do you think people like JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE or SHAQ would risk attaching their name to a "bad" company. I don't think so.

Note to all the BURNLOUNGERS: Don't waste your time in these blogs. Stay focused on your business and don't let others ruin it for you

Note to all those EVALUATING BURNLOUNGE - Judge it for yourself. Go to www.burnreview.com for a business evaluation. If it's for you - GREAT! If not, no big deal.

[Unknown]

LOL Burnlounge is the butt of digital downloads. They can't even get movies out and running. IT'S BEEN OVER A YEAR AND STILL NOTHING WORKS RIGHT! HaHaHa Yeah you BL member go ahead and keep spending your money on nothing. It's been proven over and over you will only make money on recruiting. But if you got money to burn go ahead and burn it... O'wait you aready have. LMAO. If you search burnlounge on Google the first 5 sites are all negative. That should tell you something there. HMMMMMM

[Toasty!]

Hey Marilou, I evaluated Burnlounge and have done extensive research. Its crap. I think its rather funny that all you pro burners keep tossing around the SAME celebrities names to give credence to Burnlounge. Odd that there don't seem to be any new celebs joining the ranks in the past few years. Celebrities are not superpeople and infallible. With that logic I'll run out and take family lessons from Brittany and driving lessons from Lindsey Lohan. It's painfully obvious that MOST burners lack basic marketing and business skills. The guys who invented this are the true geniuses and I'm sorry I wasn't on their team. But the rest of you who hope to make money form this and get rich selling digital content that you don't even own, god help you in your quest because everyone knows that MLMs always have a guy(s) at the bottom who loses and you don't wanna them. Smarten up and run before you lose it all people.

[mikef]

okay, I've been interested in Burn Lounge but I'm still undecided.

I don't care about the celebrity cheerleaders (otherwise I would have bought some land in Arkansas from Erik Estrada - that loveable CHiP!).

What I'm most interested in is the experience of Indie Musicans selling their own music thru BL. And if you can give me a direct comparison with selling digital downloads thru CD Baby and their digital distro system. (of which I do sell, and make roughly $7-15 a month selling a single CD release).

I'm also interested in the music sales part, I'm not interested in the selling Mogul stuff. What kind of numbers are we talking here for BL?

thanks,
Mike

[Cube]

Hey Marilou, what do you and the other burnscammers have to say now that the FTC has slapped Burnlounge with a federal lawsuit and your founder, Juan "Alex" Arnold, has resigned as CEO of the company?

Everyone, get out of Burnscam now before it's too late and you lose it all.